[00:00:01:18 - 00:00:27:06]
Shawn FitzGerald
Hello and welcome to Intentional Change, the podcast for business owners and leaders who want to navigate growth, technology, and transformation, not by accident, but with intention. I'm your host, Shawn FitzGerald. With my co-host, Joshua McNary, we explore practical ideas and share insights to help lead you through change with clarity and confidence. Be sure to follow, share, and subscribe so you don't miss the next insight that could change how you think, lead, or grow your business.
[00:00:29:11 - 00:00:53:21]
Shawn FitzGerald
Leadership isn't a solo sport, and the best leaders don't function as lone wolves. They're more like orchestra conductors, tuned in, responsive, and deeply aware that the music only works when everyone is playing together. But here's the truth we don't talk about enough. Real leadership isn't about control, it's about connection. And too many leaders are taught to perform and not to connect, and performance builds ego.
[00:00:55:00 - 00:01:51:04]
Shawn FitzGerald
Connection builds trust, and trust, that's what moves a business forward in transformational ways. But how do you as a leader build trust? Today, we're talking about the real power behind successful leadership, being people-centric, and getting people involved. We'll explore why listening matters more than barking orders, how sharing ideas, even half-baked ones, can spark real breakthroughs, and why trust isn't just a soft skill, it's the foundation for every hard decision that matters. Today, we're talking with Steve Vaught of Organizational Architects. Steve is a natural connector and a professional facilitator that doesn't just talk the talk, he cultivates, and he teaches others to do the same. So if you've ever wondered what happens when smart people stop trying to have all the answers, and instead create space and relationship where the right answers can emerge, this episode is for you.
[00:01:52:07 - 00:02:37:17]
Shawn FitzGerald
Steve, welcome to Intentional Change. Always a pleasure. We're gonna talk about leadership, we're gonna talk about people, collaborations, we're gonna talk about getting everyone involved and a whole lot more. Are you ready? We're ready. The place I wanna start is with something that you do. I find it fascinating, and it's so unique from everyone else that I know in my network, is that you send email messages, you send notes, and the messages come different days, different regularity, but they're always something that's related to my industry. There's something that I would find interesting, and you often, when you send the link, the simple message just says, "I found this, "and I thought you might find this interesting." And I love it. Why do you do that? Why is that your thing?
[00:02:37:17 - 00:03:12:07]
Steve Vaught
Well, first of all, I appreciate that you do enjoy it, so it's not aggravating, and sometimes when I send messages out, it's, "You may have already seen this, but just in case." So that way, I cover that they're actually interested in that topic, and that they're looking at sources that would further their education as well. But it's something I learned a long time ago from one of my many jobs, companies that I was with, and I was talking to a person that sold life insurance, and he says, "Well, I keep in contact with my clients."
[00:03:13:07 - 00:03:54:12]
Steve Vaught
And this was way back in the old days, when the newspaper was the way you got all your news, and he says, "I look through newspaper, "I look through other things, and if I have a client "or a friend of mine, or just somebody "that I would like to be a client of mine, "and I see that their kid's playing softball, "and there's a picture in the paper, I'll cut it out, "I'll drop it in the mail, say, "Hey, thought you might like to see this picture, "in case you missed it." And I think that goes a long way. You may not see the fruits of that right away, and most of the reason I do it is because I like the people that I send this information to, and it doesn't take more than a couple of minutes, but the impression you make is long-lasting.
[00:03:55:12 - 00:04:03:16]
Shawn FitzGerald
So, I wanna talk a little bit about connecting with you. Do you set out to have kind of a diverse network?
[00:04:03:16 - 00:04:26:11]
Steve Vaught
It's just a variety of things. I meet somebody and we kinda click, exchange cards. I'm a naturally curious person, so I do wanna find out about things. I'm kind of one of those people, I think, that has a knowledge base that's 10 miles long and it's about an inch thick. So, I can talk about lots of different topics, at least to the point where they want to respond.
[00:04:26:11 - 00:04:34:18]
Shawn FitzGerald
Sure, sure. What are some of the things that you've done in your career that you think are standout or really meaningful for you?
[00:04:34:18 - 00:04:48:09]
Steve Vaught
Good question, and it's usually, most of the time it's when I'm talking, whether it be facilitating a group of people consulting with folks, meeting new people, trying to make them better.
[00:04:49:11 - 00:05:27:18]
Steve Vaught
I had, after a presentation, I had someone come up afterwards and say, what is your opinion on sales? Can salespeople, are they born or can they be built? Can they learn that information? And I said, well, the first thing for me is that you have to be curious, genuinely curious about business, the person, those types of things. And two, you have to truly want to help that person, that company be better. If you're just there to make a sale and that's it, I think that kind of shines through to a client or a potential client pretty quickly.
[00:05:27:18 - 00:05:51:20]
Shawn FitzGerald
I'm curious to get into some of the dynamics, because when you get groups of people together, how do we click or not click? How do we work together to encourage everybody to be involved? For someone who's listening who has no clue when we say peer learning groups, what we're talking about. Can you give just a little bit of background of what is a peer learning group? What's the purpose of it? Help us to understand what that is.
[00:05:51:20 - 00:06:12:12]
Steve Vaught
At its essence, a peer learning group is a group of people that have relatively the same job, whether you're a marketing person, whether you're a CEO, whether you're a CFO, you all have the same kind of jobs. You're usually from different companies, non-competing companies, which is where you get
[00:06:13:15 - 00:06:29:13]
Steve Vaught
people to be candid about their issues and what needs to happen and what's not happening, and those kind of challenges that we'll probably talk about down the road here. But they get together on a regular basis. There are nationwide groups like
[00:06:30:19 - 00:06:40:18]
Steve Vaught
Brenda Zahn's Executive Forum or Vistage and things like that, but those have always been for the C-level people, because they're very expensive groups.
[00:06:41:19 - 00:07:24:17]
Steve Vaught
Sometimes there's a consulting aspect that goes along with the peer learning. The group that I've had the most pleasure in my life working with, which is this peer learning group that I have been doing for 11 years now, is these are middle managers, and it happens to be a marketing peer learning group. So these people are either the sole marketing expert in their company or they have a very small team. Those are the people that usually don't get the advantage of being in a group like this and sharing with other like people that are doing the same jobs, not at the same company. They don't even manufacture or do the same things, but they're all hitting the same types of problems.
[00:07:24:17 - 00:07:39:18]
Shawn FitzGerald
Are they there just to share information? Is there a little bit of being able to, kind of in a safe area or a safe zone, get things off their chest and just kind of vent and work through issues or is it just purely idea sharing?
[00:07:39:18 - 00:09:46:18]
Steve Vaught
Sure, let me just run through a common meeting that we would have the building blocks of the meeting. We meet six times a year, so it's not even every month. We meet six times a year. We meet from 10 o'clock in the morning to two in the afternoon. These people that are in this group are from Central Iowa and Eastern Iowa. So they have to travel to get to these meetings. And so starting a meeting that late gives them time to drive from wherever they're located, to be at the meeting for four hours and then time to drive back. So we start at 10, just with general welcome, introductions. We have all of the topics for this peer learning group are member driven. So at the end of each meeting, we say, what's the hot topic right now? What do you want to learn more about? And we get kind of a consensus from the group that that would be great to learn that. And myself and another person will then source an expert. We have a speaker come in and they've got 90 minutes. They will present their material. We can ask questions back and forth. And then that usually takes us to about noon. We have lunch brought in. And then right after lunch, we do challenges. In the morning, I pass around a sheet so I know who's there, they sign in. And if they have a challenge that they want to bring, now a challenge is anything that's giving them cause for pause in their work. It could be people problems. It could be a certain, because it's a marketing group, it could be anything about SEO or where do you do this? Or how do you, we have lots of people issues. That's one of the things that surprised me more than anything that I've got this person on my group. They think that they should be at a higher level than they are, but their work doesn't do this. How do you do this? So we've only got two rules for our group and since you've got to stay connected and participate in the group. And the second thing is all conversations are confidential.
[00:09:46:18 - 00:09:52:17]
Shawn FitzGerald
What sort of challenges do you have in these groups to get them to share, to get them to open up?
[00:09:52:17 - 00:09:54:01]
Steve Vaught
It's all about trust.
[00:09:55:05 - 00:11:05:07]
Steve Vaught
And we might not have people be as open as they might in the first meeting as they do in the second and third meetings. It's like, okay, these are not my competitors. They're not gonna think I'm stupid. I heard a challenge that we had last week and it's like, well, I had some ideas on how to help them. I bet they have an idea on how to help me. And a lot of these companies are manufacturing companies throughout Iowa and in a lot of cases, they're in smaller towns, but for the most part, they may be the only person that is doing that job. Let's say a marketing job. Or they weren't classically trained to be a marketing person. I had one person that was a client and she was a CPA. And in the CPA firm, they said, hey, we need to do some advertising. We need to do some marketing. You kind of seem to like that. Why don't you run the office and be our marketing person? And this was a trained accountant and she had nobody to talk to. And she was part of a peer learning group up in the Northwest part of Iowa. And she says, I bet there's other people that are in the same place I am. I really don't know what the heck I'm doing. So let's get a group of us together and share ideas.
[00:11:05:07 - 00:11:14:17]
Shawn FitzGerald
Do you find that that kind of isolation is a common thread between the people that start with you or just some, but not necessarily all?
[00:11:14:17 - 00:11:18:17]
Steve Vaught
No, I think for the most part, it's across the board.
[00:11:20:03 - 00:11:27:08]
Steve Vaught
So one of the, there's this group that I lead happens to be a collaboration between Cirrus, which is part of Iowa State.
[00:11:28:13 - 00:11:59:16]
Steve Vaught
Working with manufacturers throughout the state and other companies, not just manufacturers and the association of business industry here in town. And so Cirrus is my biggest sales force because if they're out there actually working in companies around the state. And when they know about in this particular group market wise, they'll say, hey, I think I've got a group for you because they're just floundering on what they need to do, whether it be video or there'd be other places that they might want to advertise their products or just let people know that they're here.
[00:12:00:21 - 00:12:41:01]
Steve Vaught
So they come to the group, so, and then they go, this is fantastic. I can talk to people, I can ask questions. And it's not just during our meetings because I make a photo roster of everybody that's in the group and send it out and keep that up to date. So they can pick up the phone and call any one of our other 12 or 13 members that are in the group. And we do have, we have a LinkedIn page to be able to do that kind of stuff too. But for the most part, they can pick up a phone and call somebody and say, hey, have you done this? Or they send an email out to the entire group. Hey, we're thinking about doing away with vacation and just having open, you know, take your PTO time whenever you want to. And does anybody else do that?
[00:12:41:01 - 00:12:57:14]
Shawn FitzGerald
Do you think that they are also learning from you as a facilitator how to make sure people are engaged, make sure they're contributing, make sure they're being confidential. Do you think that those skills are applicable to your members when they go back to their own business?
[00:12:57:14 - 00:13:14:22]
Steve Vaught
I'd like to think that the way we as a group run the meetings and the way I as a facilitator run the meetings, that some of our members will take those things back to their companies. Or even if they're the only one on that team, then talk to other people that they need to get information from.
[00:13:16:04 - 00:14:33:18]
Steve Vaught
Over the years had sessions based on, okay, marketing. What do you need in marketing? We never have enough money to do what we need to do. We need to redo the webpage and they just don't understand this. So we took one session a long time ago and said, "Well, this is marketing, here's sales, sales brings in the money, right? They get money, we need to help them. And here's what a financial officer does in a company. Their job is to say, okay, here's sales, here's cost of goods sold, now we get into overhead." Well, marketing is usually put in the overhead bucket. And so you're just a cost. But if you create a relationship, not only with financial, but with sales, because sales are always given audacious goals every year. Well, we want to sell 30% more than we did last year. And if the sales people say, "We'll give it a go, but we're going to need really good marketing to make that happen." Now you become part of the money coming in and not just money going out. So now you're a team, now you're doing that. And then even that will even tell the financial person that's like, "Oh, okay, maybe they're not just overhead, but they're actually adding to the top line."
[00:14:33:18 - 00:15:00:21]
Shawn FitzGerald
Clever, clever. It's so funny to me, being around the communications, the marketing for so long, how in a lot of cases, especially small businesses, that marketing is kind of looked at as an, I don't wanna say an afterthought because people understand the value of it, being able to connect with their customers, potential customers, new customers, old customers, but they don't treat it with the respect, necessarily.
[00:15:00:21 - 00:15:06:14]
Steve Vaught
And that's why I'm so excited about this group is because it's the middle level managers.
[00:15:08:08 - 00:15:20:12]
Steve Vaught
For the other groups that I mentioned earlier that CEOs go to, it's like, "Well, our CEO's gotta stay up on this. He's the guy that's leading our company. He or she's leading the company." Which is true, that's important. And that is true, but those groups are very expensive.
[00:15:21:13 - 00:15:30:05]
Steve Vaught
This particular group is very reasonable. We do this, we want to make companies better, and that starts at all levels, not just the top level.
[00:15:30:05 - 00:15:43:10]
Shawn FitzGerald
In your position as a facilitator, are you ever in a position where you get to see the positive outcome of the people coming to your meetings and taking that information back, taking the processes back?
[00:15:43:10 - 00:16:33:18]
Steve Vaught
Yes, we'll do that sometimes if it's a topic that has been a really tough one for someone, and we've spent a lot of time in the challenge portion of the meeting to talk that through. I'll say, "Hey, let's put a pin in this too for next time, so I want to find out how you solve this and how this work." And I always ask that when wrapping up their challenge and everyone's had a chance to weigh in, if necessary, says, "Has that been helpful?" And they, "Oh yeah, yeah, that's been great," and they're taking notes. And in just a meeting we had last month, one of the members, who's been a longtime member as well, and he said, "This, again, you may be tired of me saying this, but this is the best part of the entire meeting. When we get to talk and help each other out, ask questions and share."
[00:16:33:18 - 00:16:41:18]
Shawn FitzGerald
What is one of the most difficult discussions or difficult topics that you've ever had to kind of facilitate through?
[00:16:43:11 - 00:17:32:16]
Steve Vaught
Most often it was when I was in a managerial position for a large company and I had 30 people in my department and you had the job reviews every year and this kind of thing, or someone was, and I've had to fire people too, and me being a people person and liking people and wanting them to like me, it's kind of tough to do that, but there comes a time when you have to do that. And so I had some sleepless nights talking about those, but it is the right thing to do. And again, if you do it with compassion and you do it, you're given the warnings that you need to do, you've kind of covered your bases, they're not seeming to come around, you can talk them through that and say, "Where can we help you be better than what you are?" Maybe it's in this company, maybe it's not.
[00:17:32:16 - 00:17:43:07]
Shawn FitzGerald
Very true. And someone's gotta be the one to hire and which everyone likes to do, but when it comes to the person who has to fire, no one wants that job.
[00:17:43:07 - 00:17:57:23]
Steve Vaught
When you interview people to be either in a job that you're actually paying the money for or if it's a nonprofit thing, this is a job. Even if it's a nonprofit, you have to treat it like a part-time job because we're gonna be asking you to do stuff.
[00:17:58:23 - 00:18:34:02]
Steve Vaught
And there are small nonprofits where it's a working board and then there are just advisory council boards that have many employees there. And I've worked with both, but you have to hold people accountable or they don't think the assignment you gave them was important. If it's a board member and you say, "Hey, we need you to contact these people and then report back on what it is," or you need to set this up with someone else, then come back to us and I'll like, if it goes a couple of weeks and you call back to them, "Oh, I haven't done that yet, this needs to be done."
[00:18:35:18 - 00:19:21:23]
Steve Vaught
Hold them accountable for it because then they'll say, "Oh, this was important, okay, I need to get this done and do it." But if you give them a job, they never follow up. You don't follow up with them like, "Well, I guess it wasn't that important. Why am I at this working at this company? Why am I on this board and wasting my time when I could be doing something else?" So holding people accountable makes them feel important. They may not like it at the time, but they realize that they're important and that everyone likes to feel important. And for me, that goes back to where the name Organizational Architects came from. And I had noticed in the many companies I'd been in and the ones I'd consulted with, that they didn't have a strong culture as an organization.
[00:19:23:06 - 00:20:44:23]
Steve Vaught
And so my idea through Organizational Architects, if an architect is a person or a group of people that can build, typically build something, whether it be an office space, whether it be a house, to your specifications, what's going to be best for you, then why couldn't companies create a culture for their company, which is exactly what they want? So that was the organizational part and as an architect. So if you're in an organization and people, you do let those things slide, you do let accountability slide, then that will kill your culture. Now cultures, you're gonna have a culture, whether you design one and work hard at keeping that culture, or whether you just let one evolve, you're gonna have a culture. You can have a culture of people that aren't held accountable and people get away with stuff. So why should the good people you have there even work? Because they get the same pay as the people that aren't doing anything. Probably not a culture you want to move forward with. Or you'd be like some families, maybe you grew up in a family like that, it's like, no, we're FitzGerald's, we don't do that. FitzGerald's don't do that. We have ethics, we do things, we complete things on time because we have to, because our clients want us to do that, so we can all move forward together.
[00:20:44:23 - 00:21:13:11]
Shawn FitzGerald
So if someone's listening to this and going, oh yeah, well I understand everything you're saying, Steve, and it makes sense, culture's important, we understand that, but getting the culture that you want and maintaining it is not something simple to do. It's complicated, it takes a lot of time, it takes constant attention in some cases. If this scenario had come up in your peer learning group, how would you start trying to resolve that or help the person who voiced that issue?
[00:21:14:20 - 00:21:57:15]
Steve Vaught
Yeah, again, it depends on, you have to get the top person, who whether runs at the company or is the big influencer in the company, whatever they have to buy into that. And if they buy into that and whatever powers that be in that organization say, yeah, we'd love to have a company that works like that, okay, it's gonna take a lot of work, especially depending if it's a company that has let culture slide into what the employees has determined what that culture is, it's gonna take a lot of time to reverse that. If you have an employee handbook and nobody reads it and nobody backs up, nobody does the things that are in there, you might have to start from scratch and say, okay,
[00:21:58:18 - 00:22:12:22]
Steve Vaught
it's a new day, we're gonna be working on something that we can all be proud of and work forward together. People can be part of building that culture, then they'll feel part of that instead of it just being handed down from high above and pushed down saying, this is our culture now.
[00:22:12:22 - 00:22:26:09]
Shawn FitzGerald
So are there certain topics that you just can't resolve because the people that are in your group that are working to improve, they're just not in the positions that need to be in in order to make the changes?
[00:22:26:09 - 00:23:06:04]
Steve Vaught
Sadly, yes, because if you're in a position, you can certainly plant ideas. I mean, if you know the CEO personally, if you know the CFO, if you've got somebody that is in a position what is considered more power than yours on steering the company, maybe they bring in somebody new that is, this is gonna be the person that's gonna solve all our problems. Well, if you can get to them early and say, well, before we look at outside problems, which we need to do, we've got some inside problems we need to work on as well. But yeah, you've gotta be in a position to be able to make that change. You can certainly run your particular department in the way that you think it should be done.
[00:23:06:04 - 00:23:28:14]
Shawn FitzGerald
You started off earlier in the conversation of talking about how if you're in marketing and you're looked at as an overhead and as expense, that sometimes you start to build connections with other departments as other people and helping to change the story. From that perspective, there's probably solutions to any problems that might just require a little different tact.
[00:23:28:14 - 00:23:59:07]
Steve Vaught
It does. And certainly in that case, it was marketing, working hand in hand because one is gonna make the other successful and vice versa. How do I ingratiate myself? How do I make other people understand what it is that I do? We had a session, so okay, if it's not the financial person that marketing people are upset with, who else are they upset with? The salespeople, right? They're not doing it the way we told them to say that. So one of our meetings a couple years ago,
[00:24:00:17 - 00:24:42:11]
Steve Vaught
my good friends at Cirrus had a resource that was actually out in the Las Vegas area that zoomed in with us and talked, and her business is sales. How to get salespeople, how to manage salespeople. Here's a day in the life of a salesperson. This is what they're up against. They have goals to make. They have things that they've got, numbers that they've got to hit. They've got this. And so tried to give our marketing people, here's what salespeople have to go through to have a little empathy. Empathy is the way we live. We should be living our lives. You gotta be empathetic to other people. I don't walk in those shoes. So instead of just getting mad at them, how can I help them?
[00:24:42:11 - 00:24:52:23]
Shawn FitzGerald
When you've got people who are not empathetic in the group when they need to be, what do you do to help them become empathetic or add that component to the discussion?
[00:24:52:23 - 00:25:22:23]
Steve Vaught
As far as my group would probably go, it would probably not be those people, but it would be people in their group that wouldn't be the empathetic side. They wouldn't see the value of being human to someone else. So that's gonna be kind of a one-on-one discussion with someone and kind of talk to them about what you're seeing, what are you thinking about that? Are you happy here? Those types of things. And it may be that they'll voluntarily select out of that department or that company.
[00:25:22:23 - 00:25:36:12]
Shawn FitzGerald
So what sort of things do you do when it comes to feedback? Help me understand a couple of practical things that I might use when I'm in groups where I'm like, I need feedback from these people or this individual and for some reason they're quiet.
[00:25:36:12 - 00:25:55:04]
Steve Vaught
Yeah. As we do the discussions on the challenges and again, arguably the best part of the entire meeting and the reason people are in the group is to, if someone is quiet, and maybe it's not even a topic that they would be the one to be an expert on that and say, how does that work at your company?
[00:25:56:05 - 00:26:01:20]
Steve Vaught
What have you been hearing that's like or not like your company? And talk about just getting them talking.
[00:26:01:20 - 00:26:11:08]
Shawn FitzGerald
So getting them talking about their own personal story, even if it doesn't align with the problems at hand by doing that, it might allow them to share something that actually works.
[00:26:11:08 - 00:27:01:02]
Steve Vaught
The process we use is that the person who has the challenge is concise when they're explaining what it is there and say, what do you want from the group? And then the group takes over and then we ask clarifying questions. When you say you need to increase sales, what does that mean? By how much? What are you looking at? I don't understand. So everybody in the group understands what the challenge really is before we even start talking about, because the first thing that people wanna do is go right to an answer. Well, have you tried this? What's wrong with this? We don't even understand the question yet. So we wanna slow things down so people thoroughly understand the question and then we can start asking questions. And then once we have those questions answered, if you've had a situation that is similar, what did you do in those situations?
[00:27:02:02 - 00:27:20:13]
Shawn FitzGerald
What are some of the things that you do that business owners or management can apply in order to create a safe space, to create that space where ideas flow and crazy ideas, half-baked ideas can be presented? How do you create safe space?
[00:27:20:13 - 00:27:27:21]
Steve Vaught
That's a great question. I guess I've done it so long, I just kinda naturally go into it and I don't know how I do it.
[00:27:27:21 - 00:27:31:08]
Shawn FitzGerald
You got a magic wand, you go in and you're like, safe space, whoo!
[00:27:31:08 - 00:27:33:23]
Steve Vaught
Yeah, when I come into an office and I've got my wand.
[00:27:33:23 - 00:27:42:22]
Shawn FitzGerald
They know, you're here for business. Maybe another way to ask is, what are some of the components that you think are important a safe space should have?
[00:27:42:22 - 00:29:08:18]
Steve Vaught
You're open and honest about it. You ask about them. And it's not about me, it's the old saying that, nobody cares how much you know until they know you care. And so if you can say, this isn't about me, this is about you, this is about your company, how can I help you, what can I do, how are things going? And that may not happen in one session. It may be four or five sessions before they feel, okay, I think this person's genuine. I think I can be safe with them. And it does take time. Again, if it's someone new to our particular group, they may be quiet because they go, I've got nothing to add here, but everyone's got something to add. Even if it's another question. I'm like, well, I don't know if I can add to the situation, but I did have a question about what you said. Make me understand this a little bit more. As I said, I've been in quite a few nonprofits and what do board people and nonprofits have to do? One of the things they have to do is they have to help raise money. They have to ask for money. And a lot of people, especially Midwest people, they don't like to talk about money. You know, we don't want to talk about that stuff. But there's a, as a consultant, Joan Gary is her name, but she's a fantastic consultant. And I remember this all the time, is that your passion for your organization has to outweigh your fear of asking for money. Because you're so excited about why you need this money and the things you can do, that should overwhelm,
[00:29:09:20 - 00:29:29:00]
Steve Vaught
take away your fear. And all you have to do is ask. Because after you make the ask, it's out of your hands. That's all up to you, the person that you just presented information to. Doing that has to outweigh your fear for asking for help, or has to outweigh your fear for looking stupid and asking that question that no one else wants to ask.
[00:29:29:00 - 00:29:40:12]
Shawn FitzGerald
Facing that fear, challenging that fear, overcoming that fear, that can be a great thing for people to do, because it unlocks a lot of other positive abilities.
[00:29:40:12 - 00:29:54:08]
Steve Vaught
That's right. I mean, we used to be worried about where our next meal was coming from, and whether we were gonna take on that mastodon or not. But now it's, the stakes are lower, perhaps. But in our minds, we build it up to be a very big thing.
[00:29:54:08 - 00:30:15:14]
Shawn FitzGerald
We do, that voice inside of us that's always chatting, it can stop you in your tracks. So true, so true. And I appreciate you sharing some of the things that you've learned in order to help overcome some of the common problems that we have on our teams and our business. If you could change something instantly about how people connect with one another,
[00:30:16:19 - 00:30:17:13]
Shawn FitzGerald
what would that be?
[00:30:18:18 - 00:30:20:02]
Steve Vaught
Off the top of my head, I say,
[00:30:21:07 - 00:30:38:02]
Steve Vaught
even though it's tough, be fearless. Don't be afraid to ask questions as long as they're appropriate questions and not too prying, and just be curious. Be curious about other people, other situations, and ask questions. You never know, you might make some friends.
[00:30:38:02 - 00:30:45:23]
Shawn FitzGerald
Being a curious person, what has curiosity given you that you would have never gotten if you hadn't been curious?
[00:30:48:00 - 00:31:06:14]
Steve Vaught
Curiosity can be a two-way street, because sometimes it helps that person. It helps the person you're talking to feel important. It makes them feel like, hey, I'm valued. This person wants to know something about me. And sometimes it's just for me. I get to know something that I didn't know before.
[00:31:06:14 - 00:31:17:06]
Shawn FitzGerald
What is one of the biggest lessons that you've learned, or maybe the best piece of advice that you've been given? When you think of your life, what comes to mind?
[00:31:18:12 - 00:31:35:09]
Steve Vaught
I don't know if it's one piece advice. If I continue to go back to it, there are lots of little pieces of advice that coalesce into a bigger thing. But I think it's just, in some ways it's the golden rule. It's just treating people as you'd like to be treated.
[00:31:36:23 - 00:31:47:21]
Steve Vaught
Now, some people would argue that you say, treat people like how they wanna be treated. But until I know them, I don't know how they wanna be treated. So maybe it's getting to know people and being kind.
[00:31:47:21 - 00:32:01:06]
Shawn FitzGerald
And that's where you get your information of people so that you can start sending out your notes. Curiosity leads to research, which leads to connections, I guess. So I appreciate your insight and hope you had fun.
[00:32:01:06 - 00:32:02:17]
Steve Vaught
Oh, this is always fun.
[00:32:02:17 - 00:32:07:16]
Shawn FitzGerald
At any time. How can people get a hold of you and keep the conversation going?
[00:32:07:16 - 00:32:14:03]
Steve Vaught
The easiest way is just through email. It's steve at organizationalarchitects.com.
[00:32:14:03 - 00:32:18:01]
Shawn FitzGerald
Thanks again for being here. Appreciate the insight as always. Always a pleasure, anytime.
[00:32:19:14 - 00:34:12:02]
Shawn FitzGerald
I've been looking forward to having Steve on the podcast for a long time. He's a great friend and in many ways, a mentor through my own entrepreneurial journey. Every time we talk, what starts out as a casual conversation turns into an epic exchange of ideas. And somehow, no matter the topic, Steve always delivers something thought provoking, practical, and surprisingly simple to act on. What makes Steve different is how he connects. He doesn't just share content, he shares the right content with the right people at the right time. And that tells you something. He's not just paying attention to business, he's paying attention to you, to me. And in today's world, that's rare. It's also a big reason why I value our friendship so much because I know he sees people. One of the things I loved most in this episode was hearing how Steve facilitates peer learning groups. He creates spaces where people, especially mid-level managers, can show up, share openly, and learn together. He sets the tone with trust, with confidentiality, and real dialogue. And here's the thing, what happens in those rooms doesn't stay there. Those insights don't just collect dust, they go back into the real world, they shape internal teams, and they transform company culture. And that's the power of this kind of leadership. And then there's fear, something I've been thinking about a lot lately, and how it holds people back. Fear of looking foolish, saying the wrong thing, admitting you don't know something. It's so deeply ingrained in business that we forgot what curiosity feels like. But Steve, he's gently leading a rebellion against that fear. He helps people rediscover curiosity, to ask without shame, to lead with empathy, and to build meaningful things, even when they don't have all the answers. I hope you too were inspired today to take one of Steve's insights and practices and to apply it into your own company with intentional change.
[00:34:14:06 - 00:34:49:02]
Shawn FitzGerald
Thanks for listening to intentional change. If today's conversation sparks something within you, I hope you will apply it with purpose in your own business. I'd love to hear how our intentional change podcast is helping you make a difference in your business. To drop me a note, visit ready2levelup.com and click on the let's talk button in the top right. To contact Joshua McNary, visit McNarymarketing.com. And one last thing, don't forget to subscribe and share this show with others in your network. Help us bring intentional change to every growing business. Until next time, I'm Shawn FitzGerald. Take care.
